<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd"
	xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Epistemology and sources</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ryansholin.com/2010/02/02/epistemology-and-sources/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ryansholin.com/2010/02/02/epistemology-and-sources/</link>
	<description>Ryan Sholin on the future of news. And other stuff.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 15:49:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ryan Sholin</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2010/02/02/epistemology-and-sources/comment-page-1/#comment-17386</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Sholin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=1852#comment-17386</guid>
		<description>@Anna -- Apologies, the link is there, but my styling of links in comment threads is remarkably subtle. I&#039;ll change that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anna &#8212; Apologies, the link is there, but my styling of links in comment threads is remarkably subtle. I&#8217;ll change that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anna Haynes</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2010/02/02/epistemology-and-sources/comment-page-1/#comment-17384</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna Haynes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=1852#comment-17384</guid>
		<description>&quot;If only they’d use them…&quot; above is a link, BTW (the blog stylesheet fails to show this, on Firefox, for me at least)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If only they’d use them…&#8221; above is a link, BTW (the blog stylesheet fails to show this, on Firefox, for me at least)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anna Haynes</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2010/02/02/epistemology-and-sources/comment-page-1/#comment-17383</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna Haynes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=1852#comment-17383</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you give journalists tools to help them spot anomalies in the system of the news, it gets easier to discern what’s true.&quot;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://climateprogress.org/2010/02/07/abandoning-all-journalistic-standards-cbs-libels-michael-mann-based-on-a-youtube-video-while-reporting-his-exoneration&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;If only they&#039;d use them...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you give journalists tools to help them spot anomalies in the system of the news, it gets easier to discern what’s true.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://climateprogress.org/2010/02/07/abandoning-all-journalistic-standards-cbs-libels-michael-mann-based-on-a-youtube-video-while-reporting-his-exoneration" rel="nofollow">If only they&#8217;d use them&#8230;</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul Wehage</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2010/02/02/epistemology-and-sources/comment-page-1/#comment-17360</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Wehage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=1852#comment-17360</guid>
		<description>@Ryan : You might try contacting some of the people involved and verifying the order of events.  Emails can start the process...but most journalists will probably want to talk to somebody on the phone at some point.  

You&#039;ve got a name and website, in my case...That&#039;s better than talking to a bunch of Wikipedia usernames.  If you&#039;re looking for an introduction to Tarantino, then why don&#039;t you just ask?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ryan : You might try contacting some of the people involved and verifying the order of events.  Emails can start the process&#8230;but most journalists will probably want to talk to somebody on the phone at some point.  </p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got a name and website, in my case&#8230;That&#8217;s better than talking to a bunch of Wikipedia usernames.  If you&#8217;re looking for an introduction to Tarantino, then why don&#8217;t you just ask?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ryan Sholin</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2010/02/02/epistemology-and-sources/comment-page-1/#comment-17348</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Sholin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=1852#comment-17348</guid>
		<description>Can&#039;t possibly not notice that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.niemanlab.org/2010/02/make-your-own-game-of-paywall/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the guy who called up Jurgen Habermas on the phone is the same guy who built the Paywall Game&lt;/a&gt; we all played at NiemanLab a couple weeks ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t possibly not notice that <a href="http://www.niemanlab.org/2010/02/make-your-own-game-of-paywall/" rel="nofollow">the guy who called up Jurgen Habermas on the phone is the same guy who built the Paywall Game</a> we all played at NiemanLab a couple weeks ago.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Digidave</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2010/02/02/epistemology-and-sources/comment-page-1/#comment-17344</link>
		<dc:creator>Digidave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 06:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=1852#comment-17344</guid>
		<description>I got duped by Habermas too.

http://digidave.posterous.com/tweets-from-jabermas

Alas.... I wished it were true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got duped by Habermas too.</p>
<p><a href="http://digidave.posterous.com/tweets-from-jabermas" rel="nofollow">http://digidave.posterous.com/tweets-from-jabermas</a></p>
<p>Alas&#8230;. I wished it were true.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anca</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2010/02/02/epistemology-and-sources/comment-page-1/#comment-17339</link>
		<dc:creator>Anca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=1852#comment-17339</guid>
		<description>If the media can be so easily duped by Jason Calcanis and the like through Twitter, what other stuff (of a more sinister nature) is unresearched but reported as truth?

I know that this is a site for reporters, but there should be some equivalent morals for readers, also...

Something like:

If the site you are looking at has more screen real estate devoted to ads than stories, or if you can&#039;t tell the difference, consider its motivation in reporting controversial stuff just to get page views.  

If the objective of the author or the venue is to make money from ads, then it doesn&#039;t matter if the story is true or not - all that matters is that people talk about it.  In fact, a story that&#039;s not true can have more value if it generates controversy (and ad views) than a true but un-controversial story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the media can be so easily duped by Jason Calcanis and the like through Twitter, what other stuff (of a more sinister nature) is unresearched but reported as truth?</p>
<p>I know that this is a site for reporters, but there should be some equivalent morals for readers, also&#8230;</p>
<p>Something like:</p>
<p>If the site you are looking at has more screen real estate devoted to ads than stories, or if you can&#8217;t tell the difference, consider its motivation in reporting controversial stuff just to get page views.  </p>
<p>If the objective of the author or the venue is to make money from ads, then it doesn&#8217;t matter if the story is true or not &#8211; all that matters is that people talk about it.  In fact, a story that&#8217;s not true can have more value if it generates controversy (and ad views) than a true but un-controversial story.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ryan Sholin</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2010/02/02/epistemology-and-sources/comment-page-1/#comment-17337</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Sholin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=1852#comment-17337</guid>
		<description>@Paul -- First of all, thank you for leaving a comment and straightening this out. The language in the Valleywag post (consider the source...) was a little opaque, so I looked up Wikipedia Review, found the Review, and figured, no, they were talking about some class of user at Wikipedia itself. Looked that up at Wikipedia and say &quot;hey, that looks right&quot; without, say, asking a Wikipedian, which would have utilized one of the points I make in this post.

Of course, given the nature of the post, this becomes a fun game to play: 

How do I know your version is correct?

You back up your assertions with links, and the first takes us to the Wikipedia Review forum, but is that where the action took place, or where the action was celebrated? And then more forum members weigh in with useful puzzle pieces that ended up in the Valleywag post.

So as an outsider, Wikipedia-wise, I&#039;m left to a) trust that you&#039;re a knowledgeable source, b) trust that Tarantino&#039;s narrative is correct, and c) opt to figure it out, if I want to, by communicating on Wikipedia with the folks on &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard&amp;oldid=340700794#Andrew_de_Rothschild&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this discussion page&lt;/a&gt;, right?

What&#039;s the most likely track for the generalized average journalist to take, and what are the tools that would make it easier to cut out some of the steps in that track?

Fun game...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Paul &#8212; First of all, thank you for leaving a comment and straightening this out. The language in the Valleywag post (consider the source&#8230;) was a little opaque, so I looked up Wikipedia Review, found the Review, and figured, no, they were talking about some class of user at Wikipedia itself. Looked that up at Wikipedia and say &#8220;hey, that looks right&#8221; without, say, asking a Wikipedian, which would have utilized one of the points I make in this post.</p>
<p>Of course, given the nature of the post, this becomes a fun game to play: </p>
<p>How do I know your version is correct?</p>
<p>You back up your assertions with links, and the first takes us to the Wikipedia Review forum, but is that where the action took place, or where the action was celebrated? And then more forum members weigh in with useful puzzle pieces that ended up in the Valleywag post.</p>
<p>So as an outsider, Wikipedia-wise, I&#8217;m left to a) trust that you&#8217;re a knowledgeable source, b) trust that Tarantino&#8217;s narrative is correct, and c) opt to figure it out, if I want to, by communicating on Wikipedia with the folks on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard&#038;oldid=340700794#Andrew_de_Rothschild" rel="nofollow">this discussion page</a>, right?</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the most likely track for the generalized average journalist to take, and what are the tools that would make it easier to cut out some of the steps in that track?</p>
<p>Fun game&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul Wehage</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2010/02/02/epistemology-and-sources/comment-page-1/#comment-17330</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Wehage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=1852#comment-17330</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the interesting look at this business.  However, you got one aspect of the Stefan de Rothchild business wrong:  it was the Wikipedia Review (a Wikipedia Criticism site) and specifically the contributor there who goes by Tarantino who pieced the Stefan de Rothchild business together : http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=28361

It was one contributor who put the pieces of the puzzle together, not a group of editors.  One person with the skills, the intelligence and a critical mind can go much more than the &quot;wisdom of the crowd&quot;.

The Stefan de Rothschild business pales in comparison to another recent incident, involving fictional &quot;cast director &quot;Lee Dennison&quot; : http://wikipediareview.com/blog/20091211/its-the-casting-director-lee-dennison-story/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the interesting look at this business.  However, you got one aspect of the Stefan de Rothchild business wrong:  it was the Wikipedia Review (a Wikipedia Criticism site) and specifically the contributor there who goes by Tarantino who pieced the Stefan de Rothchild business together : <a href="http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=28361" rel="nofollow">http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=28361</a></p>
<p>It was one contributor who put the pieces of the puzzle together, not a group of editors.  One person with the skills, the intelligence and a critical mind can go much more than the &#8220;wisdom of the crowd&#8221;.</p>
<p>The Stefan de Rothschild business pales in comparison to another recent incident, involving fictional &#8220;cast director &#8220;Lee Dennison&#8221; : <a href="http://wikipediareview.com/blog/20091211/its-the-casting-director-lee-dennison-story/" rel="nofollow">http://wikipediareview.com/blog/20091211/its-the-casting-director-lee-dennison-story/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ryan Sholin</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2010/02/02/epistemology-and-sources/comment-page-1/#comment-17329</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Sholin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 06:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=1852#comment-17329</guid>
		<description>@Daniel - Of course we are. I think network effects help -- there are technological systems and there are social systems. 

In the case of clearly-not-Habermas, it was a very social exercise. Someone wrote a blog post. Someone else recognized a hole in the story and commented. Someone else did the legwork of picking up the phone. If that community of commenters didn&#039;t exist, nothing happens.

But if there were 2,000 comments, technology might get important. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Daniel &#8211; Of course we are. I think network effects help &#8212; there are technological systems and there are social systems. </p>
<p>In the case of clearly-not-Habermas, it was a very social exercise. Someone wrote a blog post. Someone else recognized a hole in the story and commented. Someone else did the legwork of picking up the phone. If that community of commenters didn&#8217;t exist, nothing happens.</p>
<p>But if there were 2,000 comments, technology might get important. <img src='http://ryansholin.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
