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	<title>Comments on: On print redesigns</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ryansholin.com/2008/06/24/on-print-redesigns/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ryansholin.com/2008/06/24/on-print-redesigns/</link>
	<description>Ryan Sholin on the future of news. And other stuff.</description>
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		<title>By: Martha Spizziri</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2008/06/24/on-print-redesigns/comment-page-1/#comment-11021</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha Spizziri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=862#comment-11021</guid>
		<description>Ryan, 

I&#039;m guessing you saw &lt;a href=&quot;http://poynter.org/forum/view_post.asp?id=13421&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt; from Romanesko about the Chicago Tribune&#039;s 90-day redesign?

ASBPE Chicago commented on it &lt;a href=&quot;http://asbpechicago.blogspot.com/2008/06/redesign-trauma.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

Martha Spizziri
(Web editor and Boston chapter vice president, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.asbpe.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;American Society of Business Publication Editors&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan, </p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing you saw <a href="http://poynter.org/forum/view_post.asp?id=13421" rel="nofollow">this post</a> from Romanesko about the Chicago Tribune&#8217;s 90-day redesign?</p>
<p>ASBPE Chicago commented on it <a href="http://asbpechicago.blogspot.com/2008/06/redesign-trauma.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>Martha Spizziri<br />
(Web editor and Boston chapter vice president, <a href="http://www.asbpe.org" rel="nofollow">American Society of Business Publication Editors</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brad King</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2008/06/24/on-print-redesigns/comment-page-1/#comment-11019</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=862#comment-11019</guid>
		<description>@Mark:

We did design differently. We got rid of the graphic designer, deleted every icon and image, made a functional site that worked in Mosiac -- then used images and ads as our color.

But clearly there was design and information architecture.

That was a much better way to put it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mark:</p>
<p>We did design differently. We got rid of the graphic designer, deleted every icon and image, made a functional site that worked in Mosiac &#8212; then used images and ads as our color.</p>
<p>But clearly there was design and information architecture.</p>
<p>That was a much better way to put it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Friesen</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2008/06/24/on-print-redesigns/comment-page-1/#comment-11018</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Friesen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=862#comment-11018</guid>
		<description>Oh, I forgot to add:

::drool::</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I forgot to add:</p>
<p>::drool::</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Friesen</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2008/06/24/on-print-redesigns/comment-page-1/#comment-11017</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Friesen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=862#comment-11017</guid>
		<description>Brad,

As one who&#039;s been in both the butchery and brain surgery business, you&#039;re exactly right. Although I&#039;d submit that you didn&#039;t remove design from the online process, you just &lt;em&gt;designed differently&lt;/em&gt;. As Steve Jobs once said, design is &quot;not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad,</p>
<p>As one who&#8217;s been in both the butchery and brain surgery business, you&#8217;re exactly right. Although I&#8217;d submit that you didn&#8217;t remove design from the online process, you just <em>designed differently</em>. As Steve Jobs once said, design is &#8220;not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Brad King</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2008/06/24/on-print-redesigns/comment-page-1/#comment-11016</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=862#comment-11016</guid>
		<description>There is a fundamental difference between print and Web redesigns. I have had this same head-butting experience for ten years (I worked online).

When I finally got control of the online department, we did usability studies, designed for browser speed and functionality and left out every bell and whistle.

The results: a 4-fold growth in traffic and a 3-fold growth in revenue in less than two years.

If we did in print what we did online -- I believe it would have EPIC FAIL. We removed design from the process online; at Wired, design was integral (not so much anymore) to the brand and the stories. 

The mediums are different. They do different things. They are consumer differently.

The rules for one don&#039;t apply to the other in the same way the skills of a butcher don&#039;t qualify you for brain surgery. (I will not reveal whether online is butchers or brain surgeons :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a fundamental difference between print and Web redesigns. I have had this same head-butting experience for ten years (I worked online).</p>
<p>When I finally got control of the online department, we did usability studies, designed for browser speed and functionality and left out every bell and whistle.</p>
<p>The results: a 4-fold growth in traffic and a 3-fold growth in revenue in less than two years.</p>
<p>If we did in print what we did online &#8212; I believe it would have EPIC FAIL. We removed design from the process online; at Wired, design was integral (not so much anymore) to the brand and the stories. </p>
<p>The mediums are different. They do different things. They are consumer differently.</p>
<p>The rules for one don&#8217;t apply to the other in the same way the skills of a butcher don&#8217;t qualify you for brain surgery. (I will not reveal whether online is butchers or brain surgeons <img src='http://ryansholin.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2008/06/24/on-print-redesigns/comment-page-1/#comment-11015</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=862#comment-11015</guid>
		<description>Wenalway -- I actually agree with you on 2 points. 

1) Many designers can&#039;t write or summarize or create headlines or skyboxes. This is a critical skill that j-schools seem to look over. I was lucky enough to be a designer, copy editor and writer at a smaller publication, and I felt I did well wearing all the hats. Don&#039;t think all of my coworkers felt the same, unfortunately. But larger pubs have very segmented staff, and they hire strict designers for strict designing. 

2) Redesigns have for the most part failed. This is a whole nuther blog for me, but I agree it&#039;s more like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic than it is &quot;reimagining journalism.&quot;

And here&#039;s where my comment ends, because wenalway had proven himself to be a troll by name-calling. Will not feed the troll from now on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wenalway &#8212; I actually agree with you on 2 points. </p>
<p>1) Many designers can&#8217;t write or summarize or create headlines or skyboxes. This is a critical skill that j-schools seem to look over. I was lucky enough to be a designer, copy editor and writer at a smaller publication, and I felt I did well wearing all the hats. Don&#8217;t think all of my coworkers felt the same, unfortunately. But larger pubs have very segmented staff, and they hire strict designers for strict designing. </p>
<p>2) Redesigns have for the most part failed. This is a whole nuther blog for me, but I agree it&#8217;s more like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic than it is &#8220;reimagining journalism.&#8221;</p>
<p>And here&#8217;s where my comment ends, because wenalway had proven himself to be a troll by name-calling. Will not feed the troll from now on.</p>
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		<title>By: Wenalway</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2008/06/24/on-print-redesigns/comment-page-1/#comment-11013</link>
		<dc:creator>Wenalway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=862#comment-11013</guid>
		<description>Oh, and Mark Friesen is a well-known drooling design dolt. I advise not listening to him; only real journalists with real ideas deserve any credibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and Mark Friesen is a well-known drooling design dolt. I advise not listening to him; only real journalists with real ideas deserve any credibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Wenalway</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2008/06/24/on-print-redesigns/comment-page-1/#comment-11012</link>
		<dc:creator>Wenalway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=862#comment-11012</guid>
		<description>Designers obviously do not understand the goals of good journalism as applied to content. They can&#039;t comprehend the content, so they fear it, and they try to make it less important.

Also, I&#039;ve yet to see most designers trained on how to handle different types of content. They can&#039;t summarize or write skyboxes, and these are two critical skills as newspapers accelerate.

And I find it amusing when designers claim people who don&#039;t agree with them just don&#039;t get it. Their redesign efforts have failed across the board to attract readers, so I&#039;d say they are the ones who don&#039;t get it. Just check the scoreboard. The facts all go against them; all they have is their pathetic concoct-and-chant strategy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Designers obviously do not understand the goals of good journalism as applied to content. They can&#8217;t comprehend the content, so they fear it, and they try to make it less important.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;ve yet to see most designers trained on how to handle different types of content. They can&#8217;t summarize or write skyboxes, and these are two critical skills as newspapers accelerate.</p>
<p>And I find it amusing when designers claim people who don&#8217;t agree with them just don&#8217;t get it. Their redesign efforts have failed across the board to attract readers, so I&#8217;d say they are the ones who don&#8217;t get it. Just check the scoreboard. The facts all go against them; all they have is their pathetic concoct-and-chant strategy.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Friesen</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2008/06/24/on-print-redesigns/comment-page-1/#comment-11011</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Friesen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=862#comment-11011</guid>
		<description>Right on. And thanks for the link!

Oh, and Wenalway&#039;s a well-known troll among designers. I advise not feeding him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on. And thanks for the link!</p>
<p>Oh, and Wenalway&#8217;s a well-known troll among designers. I advise not feeding him.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul J. Heney</title>
		<link>http://ryansholin.com/2008/06/24/on-print-redesigns/comment-page-1/#comment-11010</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul J. Heney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryansholin.com/?p=862#comment-11010</guid>
		<description>A little off topic, but thought you might be interested in a recent Design Challenge we hosted for b2b art directors ... neat to see what people did with minimal resources:

www.tabpi.org/designchallenge.htm

Paul J. Heney
President, TABPI (www.tabpi.org)
Part President, ASBPE (www.asbpe.org)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little off topic, but thought you might be interested in a recent Design Challenge we hosted for b2b art directors &#8230; neat to see what people did with minimal resources:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.tabpi.org/designchallenge.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.tabpi.org/designchallenge.htm</a></p>
<p>Paul J. Heney<br />
President, TABPI (www.tabpi.org)<br />
Part President, ASBPE (www.asbpe.org)</p>
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